Face to Face
“Are you willing to walk the walk?"
James Lancaster caught up with Cameron Curtis, CEO of LGBT Meeting Professionals Association, to talk inclusion, tough decisions, and leadership …
THE LOWDOWN
Cameron has spent most of her career in the not-for-profit sector - cutting her teeth at the association management company SmithBucklin before going into association management independently. Now she runs her own business C2 Association Strategies – and is CEO of LGBT Meeting Professionals Association.
JL You took over LGBT MPA in 2023, when it was pretty grass-rootsy ...
CC It was kind of grass-rootsy. And I think we still probably are a little bit. We're a small association, but we've come a long way in terms of reputation repair and shifting the focus to events that provide more thought leadership and support for the community.
JL Before the events were quite social, and you've made them more educational?
CC Yes, and advocacy based. Not from a political standpoint, but advocating for the community and advocating for things like inclusion and belonging at events.
JL You run a series of smaller events, with meetings industry organisations like PCMA, MPI and IMEX. Do you have plans to create your own 'flagship' congress?
CC: There have been conversations about it. Obviously, there's a heavy lift that comes with that. We've talked about doing something of our own at some point. But what is it going to take to do it, and do we have those resources as a small association?
JL How big is the team?
CC I have 13 people working for my consultancy, and two of those help me at LGBT MPA. I've got an external accounting team that does the finances, and we've got a working board. We're very clear about that: the board must be really engaged to be successful.
JL And are they?
CC: There are people who are super involved, and then you've got people who are not quite as involved. But we've had more nominations for the board than ever this year and that shows people want to get engaged with the organisation, they want to be a part of it, they want to help be champions for the community and inclusive events.
JL We’ll return to the idea of a flagship event, but I want to explore the work you do because it’s so relevant to our audience. How should associations balance their commitment to inclusion with the realities of organising meetings where LGBT people may not feel safe?
CC Inclusion is being invited to the table, belonging is not having to explain why you're there, and the gap between the two is where events lose people. If you're an organisation and you make a decision to go to a place where it's illegal to be ‘out’ as part of the LGBTQ+ community, where it's illegal to show affection, you're already saying that you don't value me or my attendance as much as somebody else.
If the financial incentives are just too great, decide how you're going to include people who don't feel safe enough to travel. Explain why you chose the destination, acknowledge your LGBTQ+ community, and explain what you're doing to ensure people can still actively engage.
JL Where do you stand on boycotts?
CC Don't. Send the RFP, get the proposal, and then say, “You're the perfect fit, but I can't book your destination because you have legislation that's against the LGBTQ+ community.” That way you're arming the DMOs with the information they need to lobby and say, “Here's all of the money we've lost because of this legislation …
"You're weighing whether the meeting is worth the potential risk of going to jail, being killed or experiencing violence because of who you are.."
Cameron Curtis, CEO LGBT MPA
JL Is it always obvious which countries are a danger or a threat? Does LGBT MPA have a role in highlighting where the problems are?
CC Reading laws is like reading IKEA instructions, you're like, I don't know what this means. Rely on the policy people at the DMOs to help understand what the legislation means in the country or state you’re looking at. And look at your attendee list and be realistic. If you have a primarily white, straight, male audience, then maybe it's not as big of a deal.
JL You can sometimes get a different picture from a DMO, though. You hear about the laws of the land and then somebody from the DMO says, “It's fine. Don't worry.”
CC Right. You don't know, and that's risky again. If it's about psychological safety, that's one thing. Physical safety is different. If somebody could be put in prison, that's a different calculation. You're weighing whether the meeting is worth the potential risk of going to jail, being killed or experiencing violence because of who you are. It's a leadership decision. What is it that you want to portray? Who do you want to be? Are you willing to walk the walk and talk the talk?
JL There's clearly been a shift in terms of DEI in the US. What's the situation on the ground for meeting planners?
CC It’s real. We have a client that typically has a fall meeting in the US which we’ve had to move to Canada because people from outside the US were uncomfortable coming here for a conference. It’s wider than LGBTQA+. What if you have someone who is pregnant and they have a medical emergency and need to have an abortion? What does that look like if they're in a state where that's illegal? Organisations are having to change the language on their websites or change committee names. They might need government grant funding and they're not going to get it if they don't change the language they're using, away from DEI.
JL More and more associations are having to deal with their members saying, “We don't want to meet here. It’s not inclusive. What are you going to do about it?”
CC Absolutely. Members are saying they don't want to go to places that don't support their community or the membership as a whole. But some organisations booked five or six years out, before any of this was an issue, and now they're having to explain to members that they didn't have a clause in their contract that allows them to cancel without penalty!
JL It sounds like a tough time to be an association leader. Do you enjoy the challenge?
CC Oh, to know me is to know that I love a challenge and I'm a fixer! That's what I'm good at — taking organisations and redoing their mission and vision, helping them with a strategic plan, and thinking about the future and what they need to do to get to where they want to be. I sometimes dream about having organisations that have lots of money and are super easy. I don't think those exist, and I think I would be so bored if I had something like that. But there are days when I'm like, “Man, I wish I could just kick my feet up and take a breath.”
JL Do you still see a gap between what suppliers, venues and DMOs say about inclusion and the practical steps they implement on the ground?
CC Sometimes I feel it's getting better, and then an events industry association will book a city where it's physically and psychologically unsafe for people to attend, and that's always a big setback. We've got into this way of working where we're just going from one thing to the next, instead of taking the time to say, “Who's missing at the table?” If you're not in a wheelchair, you don't see things the same way somebody who uses a wheelchair does, for example ...
"The work we're doing is important because it's mission-driven work, but no one's going to die if something falls to the floor ..."
Cameron Curtis
CEO, LGBT MPA
JL Back to your events. A lot of associations came unstuck during Covid and began questioning the flagship event model. Some are increasing frequency or building fallow years into their budgets. Others are asking whether they need a flagship at all?
CC The nice thing about LGBT MPA is that it didn't have a flagship event to start with - so we're not reliant on that revenue! You could argue, as long as it breaks even what's the harm? But I think it needs to be thoughtful. Maybe an annual congress doesn't make sense, but four smaller regional events does?
JL You've got about 250 members now, a mixture of individuals and organisations. Geographically, is LGBT MPA still mainly US-based?
CC It's been a little challenging to grow internationally. That's certainly our intention. We go to IMEX Frankfurt, which has been really helpful. We don't do booths anymore, but we want people to know that we're here and we're an option. We're growing our partners internationally and that helps us grow planner members.
JL How has your approach to leadership evolved over your career? What's been the biggest learning for you as a CEO and head of an organisation?
CC I learned a long time ago that I have one core value, and that is people first. When you put the people who work for you first, you have better success and outcomes. And just like when you're planning an event, you must surround yourself with people who have different perspectives. And you must be willing to delegate and let go and know that not everybody does things your way. It's okay to get there through a different path. People work harder with you if they know that you're working alongside them instead of just saying, “Do this, do this.”
JL: What's been the biggest challenge?
CC The hardest thing about owning my own for-profit association management company is scaling. Making sure the team isn't burning out is really challenging. When you hit growing pains, it's like, “Okay, we're going to get another full-service client. Who on the team has capacity? Do we need to hire? And what does that look like from a margin perspective? You have to have margin.”
JL Your consultancy has eight full-service clients, supplying the executive director, membership, marketing, finance — everything. That's a lot of plates to keep spinning.
CC Somebody once had a good analogy: you're juggling, and some of the balls are made of glass and others made of rubber. You need to know which ones are made of glass and let the rubber ones bounce a little bit, then go back and pick them up. And it’s about reminding ourselves that we are not curing cancer. We might be working for people who are curing cancer or bringing them together so they can have thaxt big idea. The work we're doing is important because it's mission-driven work, but no one's going to die if something falls to the floor and bounces a few times. It's not life or death.
JL That's a good perspective. Looking at the meetings industry, itself, what would you most like to see change over the next five years?
CC I would like to see the associations in this industry intentionally ensuring that they're creating a seat at the table for people with diverse perspectives. Before the planning starts, before the venue is chosen, have a seat at the table so that they really understand those perspectives.
JL And just ask them what they want?
CC Ask them about their experiences. What is the worst experience you had at a conference from your perspective? You learn so much when you ask the question. We were doing a session, and I went up to a woman who wanted to say something. I went to hand her the microphone, and she's like, “Oh, I can't speak in a microphone because I have vertigo, and it messes with my vertigo.” I was like, “See, this is why you have to have those voices at the table,” because how would you know, otherwise?
